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the Tribute Episode

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the Tribute Episode

Postby davehines » March 17th, 2010, 11:58 pm

I've pointed out before that "Render unto Caesar..." has often been mininterpreted. Here is a well-articulated article on the tribute episode.
“Gradualism in theory is perpetuity in practice.”
-– William Lloyd Garrison
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Re: the Tribute Episode

Postby davehines » March 22nd, 2010, 12:55 pm

Here is an interview with a professor at Grove City about his new book on how Christianity relates to economics. Grove City College has a good reputation for both its scholarship, Christian educational values, and relative independence.
“Gradualism in theory is perpetuity in practice.”
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Re: the Tribute Episode

Postby Dan Popp » March 22nd, 2010, 1:40 pm

David, I don't buy Barr's argument. He uses a lot of words to say something very simple: Jesus meant the second half of His statement, but not the first.

This idea is refuted not only by Justin Martyr (who certainly used the same type of coins), as Barr admits; but also by other church "Fathers" and by Scripture. If this episode were in doubt, we would still have Romans 13:6 and other passages to inform Christians to pay taxes.

It is a false choice to say that the coin could be owned either by God (as the owner of everything) or by Caesar (whose image and inscription it bore). If we take Barr's analysis at face value, and God's ownership precludes other ownership, then private property is ungodly. These "alternatives" are held in tension in Scripture - that is, I can own something, and God can own it (as "it" is a subset of "everything") without implying that I am God.

Jesus' response was truly impressive, and much more so because both halves of the command are true.
Keynesians are to economics what witch doctors are to medicine. - Peter Schiff
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Re: the Tribute Episode

Postby Intelligent Design » March 23rd, 2010, 5:08 pm

I thought both were good reads.

What do we render to God? Our Soul's.

What do we render to Caesar? His coins.

In a Republic, as we have, we render to it what we allowed it to tax us. The image on that coin, or bill? That would also be the faces of our Forefathers. But one big difference, they knew they where not God's, and in bold letters across it, is..."In God We Trust."

Christ, in the act of asking for the coin, did so for a few reasons it would seem. He asked "what" coin the man held. The face on it must have been Caesar. And the man must have been doing Caesars bidding? The writter's of the Bible lead you right to that point.
The Constitution is controled anarchy, just barely, as was the intent of our Founders.

You don't have a soul, you are a soul. You have a body.C.S. Lewis

Statutum tempus Lex of Deus est a Donum. Donum attero nisi a speculum of lex of Deus, in terra
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Re: the Tribute Episode

Postby kerwin » March 23rd, 2010, 6:46 pm

I have read enough of that man's position that I know he does not understand God who commands us to obey the authorities he has placed over us. Though God did not state it with the same breath that obviously does not mean to obey those authorities instead of God, who is himself an authority that by nature is over us and also over the government. In other words if the government commands us to rebel against God then we are commanded to disobey them.

When we are oppressed by those authorities we should be patient and cry on the Lord for relief as it is the Lord in whose hands vengeance lies. God has in the past appointed men to rise up against their oppressors and I cannot say he will not do it again in his own time. I do know that if you believe that you are such an individual or are thinking of following such a one you should make certain that is the case. As for myself, though by nature a violent man, I believe that the way of Jesus who went willingly to the cross is best.

Give to Cesar the sacrifices he desires and give to God the compassion he desires.
Kerwin

To continue the fight to insure the blessing of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for ourselves and our children yet unborn is the mark of a true American Patriot.
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Re: the Tribute Episode

Postby Intelligent Design » March 23rd, 2010, 10:41 pm

I'll take that as two no's then. :grin:
The Constitution is controled anarchy, just barely, as was the intent of our Founders.

You don't have a soul, you are a soul. You have a body.C.S. Lewis

Statutum tempus Lex of Deus est a Donum. Donum attero nisi a speculum of lex of Deus, in terra
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Re: the Tribute Episode

Postby Intelligent Design » March 24th, 2010, 5:40 pm

The Coin, made by man, mans face on it, the gold only has worth to man. The gold is but a gift to man.

The real wealth, is in Heaven. And one must store up that wealth. As the widow did.....

Luke Chapter 21---New American Bible wrote:
1 When he looked up he saw some wealthy people putting their offerings into the treasury
2 and he noticed a poor widow putting in two small coins.
3 He said, "I tell you truly, this poor widow put in more than all the rest;
4 for those others have all made offerings from their surplus wealth, but she, from her poverty, has offered her whole livelihood."
5 While some people were speaking about how the temple was adorned with costly stones and votive offerings, he said,
6 "All that you see here--the days will come when there will not be left a stone upon another stone that will not be thrown down."
7 Then they asked him, "Teacher, when will this happen? And what sign will there be when all these things are about to happen?"
8 He answered, "See that you not be deceived, for many will come in my name, saying, 'I am he,' and 'The time has come.' Do not follow them!
9 When you hear of wars and insurrections, do not be terrified; for such things must happen first, but it will not immediately be the end."
10 Then he said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
11 There will be powerful earthquakes, famines, and plagues from place to place; and awesome sights and mighty signs will come from the sky.
12 "Before all this happens, however, they will seize and persecute you, they will hand you over to the synagogues and to prisons, and they will have you led before kings and governors because of my name.
13 It will lead to your giving testimony.
14 Remember, you are not to prepare your defense beforehand,
15 for I myself shall give you a wisdom in speaking 5 that all your adversaries will be powerless to resist or refute.
16 You will even be handed over by parents, brothers, relatives, and friends, and they will put some of you to death.
17 You will be hated by all because of my name,
18 but not a hair on your head will be destroyed.
19 By your perseverance you will secure your lives.
The Constitution is controled anarchy, just barely, as was the intent of our Founders.

You don't have a soul, you are a soul. You have a body.C.S. Lewis

Statutum tempus Lex of Deus est a Donum. Donum attero nisi a speculum of lex of Deus, in terra
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